How active listening opens
the doors to larger accounts
When producers act as fractional chief risk officers
—curious, disciplined, and willing to listen—
clients stop asking for quotes.
By Carolyn Smith, APR, CRA, TRA
Most producers know the moment well: the email or call that starts with, “Can you quote this for us?” It sounds like opportunity. It feels like momentum. For many agencies, it marks the beginning and end of the relationship. But for producers who want to move into larger, more durable middle-market and enterprise accounts, that question often signals that something deeper is wrong. Clients rarely ask for quotes because they enjoy shopping for insurance. They ask because they are uncertain. Overexposed. Frustrated. And quietly worried that the organization is one claim away from discovering what it does not know.
This is where the role of an outsourced risk consultant or fractional chief risk officer (CRO) starts—not by giving answers, but by listening.
A twenty-minute call that wouldn’t end
In May 2025, Rusty Goodwin, organizational efficiency consultant with The Mid-State Group, received what appeared to be a routine inquiry. A 600-employee organization wanted help reviewing health benefits. The meeting was scheduled for twenty minutes.
Rusty arrived prepared, binder in hand, ready to talk benefits. Three hours later, the binder was still closed. That meeting was not a sales pitch. Instead, it became the slow unfolding of a story the client had been trying, and failing, to share for years.
As the CEO talked, patterns emerged. Insurance decisions were made in silos. Policies existed, but no one could articulate how they fit together. Risk conversations happened only after something went wrong. Brokers showed up at renewal with quotes, not guidance.
Then came a moment that changed the tone entirely: Almost in passing, the CEO mentioned an upcoming mediation that he felt unprepared for and for which he had been told he was not properly covered. He said it without drama, just resignation. That small detail showed the real issue: The account was not just underinsured, it was mismanaged.
Why producers miss the real opportunity
Many producers would have heard that story and jumped straight into offering solutions like new markets, broader coverage, or better pricing.
Rusty did not.
Instead, he did something simple but rare: He listened without interrupting. He held back from showing off his expertise and let the client talk long enough to reveal the full problem, not just the obvious one.
He applied what he calls the “Shut Up” Framework.
S— Stop talking
H— Hear them out
U— Understand their needs
T— Take ownership
U— Unlock solutions
P— Provide peace of mind
This is the first change producers need to make if they want to work with larger accounts.
Middle-market and enterprise clients do not need more product details. They need clarity, leadership, and someone who can bring together operations, people, compliance, finance, and insurance into one risk conversation. This only happens when the advisor gives the client enough space to be open and honest.
During the meeting, Rusty closed his binder. It was not a tactic, but a signal. The conversation shifted from what Rusty brought to the meeting to what the client had been carrying all along.
Rusty said, “I had my binder and told the prospect, ‘I’m just going to shut this. You’re talking about some pretty deep stuff, so let me go shut the door.’ So, I shut my mouth; I shut my binder; and I shut the door. And I just let him keep talking. Three hours later, I’m hearing how his current broker hasn’t given him any options. And so, I was really happy that I stopped talking and that I heard everything he had to say.”
As the discussion went on, frustration came out—years of feeling ignored, reacting instead of planning, and knowing there were gaps but not knowing how to begin. The CEO talked about teaching himself, even attending a captive seminar alone because his broker “didn’t really do that.” He spoke about being responsible for risks he could not fully see. What sounded like venting was actually a way to diagnose the problems.
Active listening accomplished three things that a proposal could not. It revealed deeper risks, not just insurance needs. It built trust without making promises, and it gave Rusty permission to lead.
That is when he asked the question that changed the relationship. “It sounds like what you really need,” Rusty said, “is someone to serve as your chief risk officer.”
The response was immediate. “Yes! What do I have to do to make that happen?”
From transactional agent to fractional CRO
That moment is where many producers pause. The CRO role is not about quoting faster or selling more. It is about accountability for both sides.
Rusty reframed the relationship immediately. Serving as a fractional CRO meant setting clear expectations:
- Access to leadership and key stakeholders
- Transparency around data and decision-making
- Willingness to adopt best practices
- Commitment to treating risk as an enterprise issue
A fractional CRO relationship is not based on renewals. It is based on governance.
Setting boundaries did not worry the client. It reassured him. He did not want another “yes.” He wanted someone honest with him.
Enterprise Risk Management (ERM) applied
Enterprise Risk Management often fails when it is presented only as theory. Rusty made it practical by anchoring every decision in a simple risk decision matrix:
- Avoid risk that does not belong
- Reduce risk that can be controlled
- Manage risk that must be retained
- Transfer risk that should be insured
Instead of defaulting to transfer, the process slowed down.
High-risk practices were removed or changed before buying insurance. Management training and documentation helped reduce employment practices liability insurance (EPLI) exposure before raising limits. Cyber protocols and governance were improved before purchasing cyber insurance.
Captive conversations were not ignored; they were scheduled for later, after loss control and data maturity made them appropriate.
This was not about being perfect; it was about creating order. Stabilize first. Optimize second. As the program unfolded, the client’s frustration evolved.
At first, the frustration appeared as exhaustion—Why had no one explained this before? Later, it turned into productive anger—I cannot believe we were left so exposed.
That energy fueled change. Policies were written. Training was implemented. Governance tightened. Coverage gaps were deliberately closed rather than reacted to. This is the often-overlooked power of listening. It turns emotion into action and helps clients move from venting to having a clear vision.
As a fractional CRO, Rusty was not just managing policies; he was managing a process.
Risk decisions were reviewed often. Leading indicators like training completion, audit results, and incident trends became as important as claims data. The organization started to understand the total cost of risk, not just what they spent on premiums. Rusty also used his network, bringing in specialists when needed. He did not act like he knew everything. He found the right experts at the right time.
That ability to know when to lead, when to listen, and when to involve others is what sets advisors apart from agents.
Results that matter
By the end of 2025, the relationship had grown into approximately $1.1 million in premium, with 12 broker-of-record changes completed and critical coverage gaps closed. Additional lines and referrals were already in motion for 2026.
However, the most important result was not financial. The client stopped shopping. Leadership stopped guessing. Risk stopped being reactive. The organization was no longer just insured; it was managed.
Rusty did not win this account by out-quoting competitors. He succeeded by listening longer than anyone else would. This is the hard truth about moving into larger accounts. You cannot rush the diagnosis, shortcut trust, or lead without listening.
When producers act as fractional chief risk officers—curious, disciplined, and willing to listen—clients stop asking for quotes. They start asking for guidance, and that is where real growth begins.
The author
Carolyn Smith, APR, CRA, TRA, chief training officer for Beyond Insurance, creates and delivers transformative programs, including the Trusted Risk Advisor certification, BIGN Producer Boot Camp, and Quest for Success, that have positively impacted the lives and careers of countless professionals. These programs help industry professionals build a career that they love and achieve the success they deserve.
